Even if you’re a longtime fan of African music, you might not know the identify Rikki Stein. However Rikki is a type of folks behind the scenes that makes issues work, and the world go round. Over time he has managed the Grasp Musicians of Joujouka, Les Ballets Africains de Guinea, Keziah Jones, The Pan-African Orchestra and, most famously, Fela Anikulapo Kuti. It is most likely honest to say that no non-Nigerian was extra of an inside participant in Fela’s profession than Rikki. Even when you recognize all these items, there are extra surprises for you in his new memoir, Shifting Music, The Memoirs of Rikki Stein (Wordville). After studying the e-book, Afropop’s Banning Eyre reached Rikki in a video name from London to speak about it. This is their dialog.
Banner picture showse Rikki and Fela upon Fela’s launch from jail in 1986.
Banning Eyre: Rikki, How are you in the present day?
Rikki Stein: I am good, thanks. All is properly. You are wanting good too.
Thanks. Nicely, it looks like lots of people of our technology are writing books now. I do not suppose I am fairly prepared to try this but, however I am enthusiastic about it. You took the chance of the pandemic to get round to writing. Do you suppose this might have occurred with out Covid?
I doubt it. Actually, I doubt it, as a result of I might made stabs at it earlier. I might written a few chapters, you recognize, however I am busy, man. You already know, you want to have the ability to dedicate your self. I could not have simply dashed off a few chapters in between conferences. After which Covid got here alongside and it was a beautiful alternative that I grabbed with each arms.
You say proper up entrance that you’re a compulsive supervisor, and also you show that within the pages that observe. The place do you suppose that comes from, this want to be the one who’s outdoors shaping these occasions and these folks’s lives and careers?
I actually do not know. I am unable to assist it, man. If I am going to a present, I am sitting within the viewers wanting on the stage and I discover myself saying, that hi-hat seems to be like it will fall off the stand. I simply need every little thing to go proper, I suppose. And I discovered music to be simply pretty much as good a discipline of endeavor as another that I may need chosen. Whenever you lastly pull all of it collectively and all people’s loving it, you simply really feel, “Hmm, I did one thing proper right here.” It is like some sort of benediction. It is that non secular second while you’re there and the music’s taking place and the persons are responding and all of the bullshit you’ve got gone by means of immediately appears value it.
You will have that have over and over in these pages. I knew of you first by means of Fela after which the Ballets Africains, however I actually did not know all of your earlier adventures within the European rock scene, The Kinks, Hendrix, the Grateful Useless… Plenty of adventures. After which your years in Morocco with the Joujouka musicians. All that earlier than we get to Fela. As I learn, I did really feel that yours is a life value documenting.
Thanks. It felt that technique to me. Look, I’ve had a good time. Let me write all of it down and perhaps different folks may get one thing out of it.
You appear to have a novel potential to earn folks’s belief and confidence fairly rapidly. Again and again in these pages, you end up on the within observe with all kinds of characters making massive issues occur. It isn’t at all times straightforward to try this, however you clearly have a knack.
It is a two-way road although, is not it? You meet anyone, you want them, and fortunately they appear to love you too. So on that foundation, it is a basis on which one can transfer ahead. Yeah, suppose I’ve fortunate in that regard. I do make pals rapidly; it is true.
There’s talent in it, in fact. It isn’t all luck.
I do not know that I am essentially making use of any specific talent different than simply being who I’m, and a take-it-or-leave-it sort of factor. Luckily, some quite gifted folks have chosen to take it, on which foundation I’ve moved forward. I’ve at all times discovered that folks say you should not work with pals. I solely wish to work with pals, you recognize? You’ll be able to say kind of something to your good buddy, proper? Roughly. When it is simply pragmatic, folks say, “Rikki, you are good at what you do. You have to be managing the Spice Ladies.” And I say, “If you wish to do this, go do it, man. Nevertheless it’s not for me. I would like to have the ability to stand along with the stage or wherever I’m and really feel happy with what I’ve offered.”
There have been events on which I’ve veered from that and stated, “Okay, let me attempt to make some cash with this.” However I’ve by no means been glad, you recognize? It is by no means been fulfilling in the way in which that working with Fela or the Ballets Africains or Joujouka or any of these different artists that I’ve had the privilege of representing.
I notably loved the chapters about Joujouka. I have not really had the expertise of visiting them in Morocco, however I have been near it by means of my work. I liked Augusta Palmer’s movie about her father’s (Bob Palmer’s) time there, The Hand of Fatima. And I interviewed the breakaway Joujoukans lead by Bashir Attar. However you actually joined the neighborhood for some time. It is so fascinating to me that you simply, as a secular Jew, go into this example in a rustic the place Jews have had a tricky historical past, however you handle to move as an area. Your look is sort of a type of camouflage.
Nicely, to start with, it wasn’t a disguise. I had lengthy hair once I first went to Morocco. I instantly lower it off, to not disguise myself, however simply to assimilate myself. You already know, it was extra comfy for me to stroll round. And I’ve acquired semitic options, so it was straightforward. Individuals thought I used to be Moroccan, however I wasn’t pretending to be Moroccan. It wasn’t something deliberate on my half. It was simply lucky, you recognize.
Positive. It opened doorways. After which in the end, being Jewish grew to become an issue while you had been promoting issues to vacationers out of a store in Fez. You needed to depart.
Yeah, I do not know what they thought I used to be, however no matter it was, they had been uncomfortable. That was once I was working within the Fez medina. I believe I used to be simply fairly good at my job, sitting on a stool outdoors the store, sporting a jalaba and a caftan. Vacationers can be coming down the hill and I might say, “Howdy mate, how’s it going?” And so they go, “The place are you from?” I might say, “Walthamstow, East London. You wanna are available?” And naturally they might are available and I might give them mint tea and a kif pipe to smoke. It was straightforward for me, so perhaps there was jealousy from a few of my rivals within the bazaar who stated, “We have got to lose him.” However you recognize, I rode out a 12 months or so there, and it was good.
I have been to Morocco. Tangier, Fez, Rabat. However not sufficient. Morocco is a spot I wish to return to.
Fantastic nation.
The best way you use is spectacular. You at all times appear to have your individual program. You are making all the choices and typically rubbing different folks on the planet music world the unsuitable manner. Did you ever really feel like an outsider in that world? I am considering notably of the ups and downs of your years concerned with the Glastonbury Pageant.
Nicely, it was by no means actually difficult. I’ve at all times taken, as you stated, my very own path, and at factors the place it is intersected with others, I’ve performed my greatest. I used to be a part of the Glastonbury crew proper by means of the ’80s and did each conceivable job that one can think about there. I by no means really acquired into fisticuffs, however I did have a few furry moments, coping with the convoy. [The convoy was a gang of “ruffians” who harassed the festival.] However I imply, when there have been issues, Michael Eavis would say, “Ship Rikki out to love-bomb them.”
With the convoy, that just about led to hand-to-hand fight at one level.
Shut. However you recognize, coping with the Hells Angels, or whoever it was, I’ve at all times discovered a manner of sort of reasoning with folks. I believe that is most likely been a really useful gizmo in my armory of with the ability to calm down conditions and perhaps enchantment to folks’s higher nature.
I respect that. Let’s speak about that legendary London pub assembly in 1984 when the principal gamers in worldwide music got here collectively and determined that the suitable advertising and marketing time period for his or her merchandise was “world music.” Our buddy John Collins in Ghana has an fascinating tackle that. He was at that assembly and felt it was an enormous mistake. The best way he noticed it, there was a coalition coming collectively across the concept of Black music, music that got here from Africa or by some means associated to Africa and that DJs had been enjoying, know, Fela and James Brown and Stevie Marvel and juju music all collectively and sort of making sense of it. After that assembly, there was a sea change. Black music acquired lumped along with Bulgarian wedding ceremony music and Chinese language zithers and so forth. John stated that Black music DJs really misplaced work as a result of they they had been seen as too restricted. What’s your tackle all that?
I wasn’t at that assembly, however I noticed the consequence of it, which was that while you went to HMV or Virgin, any of the massive file shops, you discovered that should you had been serious about some stuff apart from the pop charts, you needed to go down into the basement. And within the basement, there might be a room, and it stated on the door, “World Music.” And there you’ll discover your throat singers and all that stuff and also you needed to wade by means of that to get to the stuff that you simply had been serious about. So it was marginalization. That was the consequence of this concept of lumping every little thing collectively as world music.
I lately spoke with Joe Boyd about his e-book, And the Roots of Rhythm Stay. He has an fascinating protection of that assembly that pertains to what you had been simply saying. His sense is that the World Music tag really expanded the quantity of shelf area obtainable for international music in locations like HMV. The truth that that little room existed was really an enormous enchancment over what was there earlier than.
Okay, I can settle for that. I can settle for that. Nevertheless it was however marginalization. And in consequence, the sort of protection that you’d get as a world music artist was very restricted. You may put out press releases, it’d exit to the entire locations it must go to and the variety of folks that may decide up on it might be very, very restricted.
Throughout these years, I used to be writing for the Boston Phoenix. I used to be fortunate having been each Congos, South Africa and Zimbabwe. On the power of that, the Phoenix funnelled every little thing my manner. This was simply for the time being when file firms had been beginning to launch world music and a number of U.S. editors did not know what to do with it. I knew quite a bit about African music by then, and my years at Wesleyan College had launched me to Indian and Indonesian music, however they had been additionally sending me Balkan gypsy music, Celtic music and all these different issues I knew little about.
John additionally complains that a number of fairly shallow journalism resulted from the world music seize bag. Writers would learn a press launch and immediately be an professional on this or that.
I agree. Luckily, there have been folks like Robin Denslow and Gilles Peterson on this aspect of the Atlantic, who had been making waves and giving alternative to individuals who in any other case would not have had it. And it was a wrestle. I banged my head towards a glass ceiling for a few years.
Little doubt.
Luckily, one can now see some severe cracks in that edifice. Issues are taking place. You already know, I simply acquired again final week from Womex in Manchester the place there have been two and a half thousand artists and promoters.
Proper. What was that like?
Nicely, it was good. I noticed a bunch of outdated pals and made just a few new ones. I went to the primary one 30 years in the past in Berlin. However I did not do any enterprise there, as a result of…What did I’ve? I had Joujouka, the Pan-African Orchestra from Ghana, Les Ballets Africains, Fela, all these large orchestras and issues I used to be coping with. And so they’d say, “Have not you bought any trios?” Yeah, yeah. So I did not do any enterprise, however I had fun. I went again as soon as to the one which was in Budapest about I believe seven or eight years in the past. And once more, it was a social occasion for me. I simply had fun, you recognize.
Sure, it’s a unbelievable social occasion.
So the identical factor occurred final week up in Manchester. I went with my spouse. It was nice to see Manchester so kicking. The final time I used to be there, it was fairly dreadful. And now there are venues throughout town that includes all these artists from around the globe. And at WOMEX, there’s two and a half thousand folks all making a dwelling from this factor referred to as world music.
And a number of youthful folks, The outdated timers are nonetheless there, however I actually discover that age demographic altering within the latest WOMEXs I’ve attended. It was quite a bit about file firms. That is sort of over now; it is rather more about festivals and bookings now.
Proper. The viewers is unquestionably getting youthful, which could be very encouraging. I examine the Fela stats on YouTube, and month after month after month, and 12 months after 12 months, each time I examine it is the identical: between 700,000 and one million views month-to-month. Now you may say that is not an excessive amount of when you think about he has a 50-album catalog. However one million views? That is one thing like 18,000 hours of view time, like two years in man-hours, which is spectacular. After which while you have a look at the age, you see that the growing variety of 20 to 35 year-olds has positively gone up. In order that’s encouraging. And that might clarify why there are folks in 100 cities which are nonetheless listening to you guys on Afropop Worldwide.
Let’s hope! I wish to return for a minute to Glastonbury and to the very starting of it. Inform me, to start with, how did you get entangled? You had been concerned proper from the start, proper?
Proper from the start. Nicely, it was a 12 months earlier than the brand new reincarnation of the Glastonbury Pageant in 1981. In 1980, I toured the Grasp Musicians of Jajouka. I had 35 of them on the street, and we opened the tour within the U.Ok. on Worthy Farm, the place the Glastonbury Pageant is held. Nevertheless it was a live performance in entrance of the wagon shed. And I keep in mind going for a stroll with Michael Eavis, the farmer, who advised me he had these plans to reinvent the competition and stated, “Would you want to affix us?” And I stated, “Nicely, I am sort of busy for the time being, however I will give that some thought.” Anyway, a 12 months later, there I used to be. It was a wrestle firstly, you recognize, so far as media had been involved.
Did the media ignore you?
Nicely, not completely. They might come throughout these first early years, however they solely wished photos of hippies sliding about within the mud. That was all they had been serious about. If the solar was shining, they’d simply flip round and go residence.
No story right here.
No story right here. Michael Eavis, the farmer, was a really canny man. I keep in mind seeing him as soon as calling the meteorological workplace, asking, “Any sunshine in any respect?” It was like he was ordering gravel. However slowly, slowly. The factor simply constructed. It was a really fascinating expertise for me. I by no means used to go to mattress. I used to be up for per week and I do not do coke or all these issues. Only a few good spliffs would hold me going. I do not do alcohol. I by no means acquired into that.
You bought by means of all this with out consuming. Wonderful. Admirable.
Nicely, I do not know, however, yeah, I’ve by no means drunk a beer in my life. I’ve tasted it, however I by no means favored it. I used to be drunk as soon as in my life. I discovered it such disagreeable expertise that I did not wish to do it once more.
Nicely, good for you. I anticipate that provides you an edge over lots of people on this enterprise.
It may very well be the case. It wasn’t with that in thoughts that I did not drink. However then I found weed and I stated, “Okay, I am all proper right here.”
Nicely, talking of people that love weed and do not drink, I’ve to ask you about Thomas Mapfumo as a result of, as you recognize, I put a number of time into working with him and writing a e-book about him. And also you come up at one level within the e-book, however simply briefly. So I am simply curious should you might inform me a bit of extra about your reminiscence of him and what it was like working with him and all that.
Yeah, it was good. I met him once I toured him within the U.Ok.. We acquired on very properly. I keep in mind a beautiful story on the finish of the primary tour that I did with him. The tour was completed and it was time for them to go. I am unable to keep in mind precisely what the issue was, however there was an issue together with his return tickets to Zimbabwe, him and the band. They could not journey, and we had been nonetheless ready to get cash to settle the books on the finish of the tour. I had a girlfriend, an American girlfriend, and we would had an argument and he or she’d gone again to America. Then in direction of the tip of the tour, we would made up on the telephone, and he or she’d come residence. So I completed the tour and I am going residence to my house to satisfy my girlfriend. I rang the doorbell and he or she opened the door and I might see candles lit and every little thing. And within the hall behind me, she regarded and noticed your entire Thomas Mapfumo band. We did not have anyplace to remain or any cash to remain. I believe there have been a dozen of them, if I keep in mind accurately. There was one even sleeping within the tub.
That is nice.
There’s one other beautiful Thomas Mapfumo story. Have you learnt Lou Edmonds?
I do. And I do know his story about when he needed to step in and play with the band as a result of a guitarist went lacking.
Precisely. Humorous sufficient, I ran into Lou at Womex final week. We hadn’t seen one another for years. However working with Thomas was good. I believe he lives in Oregon now, is not it?
Sure. He lives in Oregon now. I contemplate him one of many giants. In fact, his music has had nowhere close to the worldwide resonance of Fela’s. I partly relate that to the truth that it comes from a area of Africa that has nearly no reference to the Atlantic slave commerce. So the musical dialog is extra sophisticated. The attribute rhythms and melodies in Zimbabwean music are much less acquainted to Western ears than these coming from West and Central Africa the place we share the legacy of the slave commerce. That is a part of it.
That is positively true. I suppose additionally the jazz component in Fela music has helped them to succeed in out to much more folks.
You already know, I noticed Seun Kuti this summer time together with his internationalized present model of the Egypt 80 band. They had been sounding nice. We had an opportunity to speak, and he stated an fascinating factor. I requested him about the way in which Afrobeat musicians have been type of marginalized by the brand new technology of Nigerian pop stars, and he stated that this had brought about the Kuti household to come back collectively, put rivalries apart and carry out collectively and actually work as a unified entrance, if you’ll. I believed that was fascinating. Is that your expertise?
Lastly. Sure. Proper. I imply, while you have a look at the Marley phenomenon, the musicians had been collectively, man. They caught collectively. And so once I see that sort of solidarity inside the Kuti household, I am very glad to see that. And so they need to. I am seeing increasingly more references to the music the place they’re sort of knocking the “S” off today. They’re simply calling the music Afrobeat, which is a misnomer. Afrobeats was a advertising and marketing ploy. Come on, man! Some DJ got here up with it.
Proper. The Afrobeat/Afrobeats factor will sew confusion for generations to come back.
I am positive it’s going to. And you recognize, in Fela’s final years, he deserted Afrobeat and stated, “I am enjoying African classical music. And I do not care what you do, Rikki, however do not fuck round with my music. You do not mess with Tchaikovsky, so why are you gonna begin on me?” However sure, it’s going to create confusion. As a result of the music’s acquired nothing to do with Afrobeat per se. On the similar time, I fairly like a number of the music. I am solely irked by what it is speaking about? They’re simply speaking about leg over. It is a leg over story each time.
Sure. I like a few of it too, however I tire of it rapidly. There’s a number of repetition. Nonetheless, you may’t argue with the success. It is unbelievable.
Sure, it is hitting a nerve in folks. It features. It switches one thing on that folks recognize and luxuriate in. I simply really feel that, notably in the present day, while you have a look at Nigeria, man, they’re hurting. They’re hurting! I imply, once I was final in Nigeria two years in the past, it was about 700 naira to the pound. At this time it is gone previous 2,000, which is simply insane. And I am struggling for the time being attempting to get my e-book out in Nigeria at a worth that works for me and for them. It isn’t straightforward, not straightforward in any respect. I am about to convey out the e-book model of my e-book, and I am about to enter the studio and file the audio model. I am wanting ahead to doing it, and I will incorporate music into the e-book as properly.
Nice. I simply noticed your International Island Discs playlist. There’s quite a bit there to dig into.
Nicely, look, you recognize, the beat goes on, however I am actually glad that I really took the time and hassle to write down this rattling factor down, which was actually pleasurable. And there was an added payback that once I was enthusiastic about a specific occasion, I might keep in mind somebody, and I might go and Google the man. I discovered myself having these conversations with folks I hadn’t seen for 60 years, you recognize? Which is gorgeous.
That is beautiful, yeah. Are you accustomed to this band in Barcelona that is doing Grateful Useless songs in African types, Afro-dead?
No.
We simply did a podcast on that, which you may discover fascinating. It was spearheaded by Aaron Feder, and American who leads an Afrobeat band out of Barcelona referred to as Alma Afrobeat.
Attention-grabbing. I may need heard of them. Have you ever heard this Brazilian Afrobeat band referred to as Funmilayo?
Sure. An all-women’s band, proper?
Sure. Superb band. I am toying with the concept of placing one thing collectively for them.
Nicely, that was the very last thing I wish to ask you about. What are you doing now? I am positive as a compulsive supervisor, having gotten this e-book performed, you’ve got most likely acquired new issues cooking.
Nicely, I am not managing anyone for the time being. I am nonetheless CEO of an organization referred to as Kalakuta Dawn, which is a holding firm for Knitting Manufacturing facility Data and Partisan Data. It is a mantle that I put on very flippantly as a result of we have got a tremendous workforce of individuals on each side of the Atlantic doing extraordinary work.
Fortunate you.
I believe you recognize I put out these Fela vinyl field units
We have now the primary six, and are eagerly ready for the seventh one. They’re treasures.
And we’re about to start out work on remixing your entire Fela catalog in Dolby Atmos.
That appears like enjoyable.
Yeah, that is one of many issues that I am engaged on for the time being, which is sort of thrilling. And apart from that, you recognize, I’ve sort of been busy selling this e-book. The primary time in my life that I’ve ever promoted myself, you recognize, I’ve at all times been busy tooting trumpets for different folks.. I’ve to say, I am fairly having fun with the method. And I get to speak with chaps such as you.
Nicely, it is a pleasure to talk with you as properly. Good luck with the e-book.
